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Goodbye 2021!

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We say goodbye to Pandemic Year 2: The Sequel with a look back on the last 12 months of the Reimagination at Work podcast and what we have learned from our incredible guests. We also look forward to an exciting 2022, and discuss the latest What Fresh Hell Is This? report. 

Hello and welcome to the reimagination at work podcast. This is the podcast of where we challenge everything you think you know about the world of work and try to think of ways that we can make work better. I'm like a Chapman. I am one of the CO creators of which this space and I'm joined by my fellow co Creator, Mo cantlow. How you Ding my I am good. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. I'm Merry Christmas. Oh, here we go. That's yet is it's December. It started, it's happening. I know it's been happening since October. They know in my house. In my house it starts on November the eighteen, because that is the day after my birthday. But in the white light in this in this country, I don't know if it how it is in other countries. It starts in October and it drowns out other celebrations. Are the particularly other religious celebrations. They're just drowned out because every one of these is over Christmas. Sorry, you know my feelings about this. It's things where the actual day. I've got not think it's the actual day. It's nice, like there's nothing wrong with it's just everything around it and then whole obsession with commercialization and presents and send me a list of what you want. It's like, I don't want anything. This is the problem because, you know, you hear somebody as seen as someone says and we hear, we talk with clients about maybe not being too overboard on Christmas because you've got, you know, plenty of star you might not celebrate Christmas, might not be interested in it, and you always get people say, oh well, you know, this is a Christian country and we should be able to celebrate our festivals and things. But the problem that I have with the kind of celebrations around it is that it's nothing to do with the religion. It's nothing to do with the festival itself. It's just a one big festival of capitalism. Yeah, exactly. That's what I have against it. So it's not, I'm a total grins like the actual day. It's this things down with family and having a nice male playing games and all those things. That's all fine. It's just everything else around it drives you mad and it's just so ram down your throats and you know it's a difficult time for a lot of people that people don't have enough money, people that might have lost somebody, people that might be alone. You know, it's like it's a really tough time and it's rammed down your photes as if there's nothing else that can be talked about for the whole it's not just the whole month as well. That's the other thing. It does start in October and it does drown out like nobody cares about any other religious festivals at all. Nobody in this country really cared, apart from the people celebrating them, and it's like we we all just have to like now down to this festival of capitalism. Yeah, yeah, it's so excessive and I love Christmas and you know, it's one of my favorite homes of the year and I, you know, really enjoy it. I've always loved it. But at the same time I'm kind of really been making a concerted effort to sort of raining what we do with our kids because we don't want to go overboard. And I see people getting so stressed out and so overwhelmed, but I not just the cost of everything, which you know is one big challenge, but also just the stress of trying to organize everything, try to get tickets for things and it's just, you know, there's so much pressure. I you know I'm seeing, I've seen several mums in various facebook groups and what's up groups having nervous breakdowns over dealing with the Bloody Elf on the shelf and just getting so stressed out about having to manage all of this stuff. And then, you know, for parents who don't have a lot of money, their kids end up, you know, in floods of tears. Go well, what if I've been naughty? WID Did all these other kids get hypads and things and Suntor only gave me like teddy bear something in there? You know, they're feeling really upset and then the parents are getting really distressed because they feel like they failed their kids and people are going into debt and it's just, you know, it's such a massive low distress when it all it's supposed to be, as you know, one Nice Day to spend time with your family, and so for me I'd like it. If I had my way, I would go oversee somewhere every freight. It's so on a beach somewhere right now, but obviously that's for many reasons don't going to happen right now. Yeah, well, yeah, it's not the season...

...to be to be going abroad anywhere right now. Now, there we go. But yeah, I'm all for Christmas. I think it just be sensible, but I made just maybe like just cal't it down a little bit and also be aware, like you say, that it's not the only thing going on exactly, and just and just people. People to be a bit aware that for some people it's it's not the most wonderful time of the year and they find it really upsetting and stressful and all of those things, and just a bit of awareness that that just because for something, for you it's the most important thing, it's not for everyone else. Yeah, I'm asking for that's your Christmas wish, but it is the end of the year and it is we've made it. We've made it to the others been as well. I mean I feel like we did ground top day constantly at the moment, isn't it? I feel like we had this sack time conversation last year. Oh my goodness, what a year it's been. But we've done it all over again and it's so strange because in some ways it feels like five minutes ago that we were having a conversation at the end of last year and here we are in a year were so much has happened. It's been it's been crazy. I mean on a global scale it's been crazy because we've had more lockdowns, more new variants and back sines are boosters and Oh my it's yeah, but then also for us it's been, yeah, quite the year to watch. The space baby's arrived. Yeah, and loads of things have happened with us as a business. Obviously it's been an amazing year. Yeah, I mean that's that still seems to Real, isn't it? To be the winners of the simply business competition. I have, I saw it, like. I really process that, because people can still keep saying to me or he has it failed to be winners. There has been amazing. I'm like, I just I still don't feel like it's real. We've got the money in our bank account. It's definitely happened by still, yeah, core really process that? I don't think. Yeah, it was when we did that meeting them last week, some business and they're like, oh, your you to famous, are we? Yeah, that was mad actually, and we because we we went actually, as this podcast is released, we the I think the video will be out pointed. For the simply business are doing a campaign and to supports more businesses over Christmas, because Christmas is a really important time for small businesses. And so use your festival of capitalism wisely and spend your money. Yea more businesses who really need it, rather than big giants who just spend their money flying to the moon for no reason. So, yes, we did a video with simply business and met really amazing people that we have looked up to for ages and sudding in a room with all these quite favorus business people who know who we are, which it's really surreal. So it's already bizarre and I think yet to know that we beat twenty five thousand other businesses to win that grant is just, yeah, scry, very cool, wow, moment that that actually happened. Yeah, that amazing. And we've won another award. Yes, yes, I mean he's a watch, which was very exciting, and we were nominated for two other awards. That's very exciting. Yeah, we what one some and may using new clients working. Yeah, I can contracts and some really exciting things book for the New Year, which is really cool. So, yeah, it's been it's been man and I can't believe that we've all of that has happened into it. It doesn't feel like twelve months. It feels like literally yesterday. Yeah, it does. If it's quite, yeah, quite odd that that's been a year just like that. It's like you say, it's been an odd year because it's been a year of in an outloto. The early part of the year was all a lockdown, though. It's just been a really strange year, but then also we have been able to go out and do things as well as the year progressed. So yeah, straight, yeah, times. And it also means we've done twelve of these podcasts. Yeah, this...

...is our twelve episode of the year. What we thought would be really nice for this episode is to just look back on some of those episodes of what we've learned and, you know, kind of what we've gave, because we are really, really clear that diverse and inclusion isn't something that you can master. Whatever. I mean, it's you know, we are here to guide you, but I think we are always still learning ourselves and still growing and still developing our own skills and still looking to learn from other people's experiences and ideas and learnings. And everything else. So all of this has been a really great process for us to talk to Thays of really aspirational people and learned lads from them. So, St with you may, what are the some of the highlights that you've learned? The highlights? So it was great to look back actually on the podcast because some of the earlier ones were us, which were brilliant as well. So talking about some interesting subjects and we had some fantastic guess and we've got some really fantastic guest lined up as well for more episodes. So when I looked back, there were two that really stood out for me. One because it was with my very good friend Claire, where we just giggled a lot talking about starting a business and it was great fun and it was really good to hear the story properly from her about how she decided to start to start a business of self when she was on maternity leave and because it changed things for her and made a realize that she wanted to start a business for herself. We I think she'd always wanted to, but returned to leave really change things for her and it was really interesting to just hear how it will happened, how she grew a decisions she made, you know, and how it's grown into the brand that it is now and that, yeah, it was really interesting to see how you can do that. And you know, it's funny when it's a friend because, you know, I see her instagram and thousands of instagram followers and I see, you know, that she's busy with the business. But then to hear properly was really, really great to hear all about it. Yeah, and there's one thing I forgot to ask her in the episode actually, which I said to her afterwards. What should have asked her is, what does Annabel think about all this, because the business is named after her daughter, Annabel, who's now, I think lose t old you think she might be fifteen now, and I did ask her about it afterwards and Claire said that actually, Annabel loves it. She loves the fact that her name is famous in this business and it's really good fun. That one really sit out. That was be so cool having like your name classed across a business and as a teenager breed like that be. Yeah, that API stade really really resonated with me. Actually, a really loved I loved listening to Takdar talking because it's an abuts wigs is such a huge brands and such a big business now and you know, so many followers on all the social media and you know everything she's doing. It was so nice to hear the person behind it talking so honestly and openly about what it was really like and you get the sense of that real human behind it all and definitely that idea of, you know, kind of maternity leave changing everything. I think is is something that a lot of mothers can relate to because it's such a huge shift in everything and Yeah, you know, it's a really cool to go back into a regular job after you've had a baby and all, you know, after starting the business. It meant that she thinks were so much easier for her with two young children because she just worked it all around the children, so she was always able to keep them up from school and do things like that because it was her own business and I think she really changed that for she wouldn't have been able to do that if she'd gone back to the job that she was doing. Yeah, definitely. It was interesting actually because one of the episodes that really kind of stuck with me as we talked to Mandy from working mums. Yeah, about a lot of the difficulties because they are are jobs. Board that specializes in working with. Well, they have they have working mom's Moms, they've working dad's and they have working wise for the over S, but we we talked mostly about working mums because that was the first one. That's I still all off because it is so difficult for for so many mothers in particular,...

...because it tends to be in heter sexual relationships anyway, it tends to be the woman that's doing the majority of the child care and the domestic work of managing all of that and then trying to work on top of it and school pickups and Nurs we pick up. Some of that are very inplexibullets Al really difficult. Trying to find a job that fits in with that is so hard and it was really interesting to talk to to Mandy about that and he's more about it and I think it's you know, that's one of the areas of diversity that gets really overlooked quite a lot. Is that that kind of those things that aren't necessarily about you. It's more about your lifestylus, about your situation. So having children is such a massive thing and and we know effects women much more than it effects men. You know, men tend to get actually quite a little benefits out of having children. They tend to earn more money, yeah, after they've had kids, and they tend to get promoted or that kind of thing, whereas it's very much the opposite for women. There, you know, money and everything goes down. So, you know, theyy sorts of things. You know that looking at those different areas of diversity I found really, really interesting, and because we also talked to what you talk to, Nadia from sorry and Mighty. Yeah, it's a male love flying idea. Yeah, that's because today is actually yeah, she was absolutely amazing and I loved listening to that episode saying a march, because it was so you know, it's just an area that I think is so little talked about and so little understood, and she had all these amazing insights and thoughts about how we deal with shy people. And actually we discovered the majority of the population are shy. You know, most people are shy, and yet the world is designed for extroverts, which is about everything about our world as design for extra rits, right from when you go to school, and it's about putting your hand up in class. It's everything. Everywhere you look is all design for extraverts, politics and obvious media and just so many careers as well. If you're going to business, it's all about presenting and talking and speaking up in meetings and you're getting to know how. It has been brilliant just to see and understand how there are these contributions for all these amazing people that we're missing because everything designed for extroverts. Yeah, yeah, start up. Yeah, if you haven't listened to that episode, do you go and check it out, because it was it was so interesting because one of those interesting things I thought that no idea said was, you know, do you do you want the decisions in your company to be dominated by the person who's just, you know, saying whatever the first thing that pops into their head is and speaking the loudest, or do you want to hear from the people who are thinking it over and spending a bit of time, you know, considering the issue? Yeah, that was you know, it's really, really interesting and I when I used to work in engineering company like Tech Corporation, I remember there was one particular person who would always listen all the way through meetings didn't speak for quite a long time, maybe halfway through, very quietly, very calmly, say the genius thing that solved whatever problem it was we're talking about. Say, you'd listen to everybody kind of rarer, and then would quietly come in because he's been listening and absorbing and waiting for a moment that felt right to speak. And it's just such an example of that that actually we do need to hear those contributions from people that take more time to speak up. Yeah, definitely, and make space for yeah, and makes place say say those genious moments of inspiration. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, what I wanted to talk about is kind of linked to with with Samantha Harland from Class X, which we were both recordedn't yeah, at the fantastic podcast studio. Do you remember? I love that studio. Yeah, it was brilliant and it was great to talk to her about how you can start a business, because you know, like Claire, you can have a good, great idea for a business, but and how do you actually make that reality? And it was really interesting to talk to her about different ways you can get support for starting a business, and we've seen a lot...

...of that in the business communities. There's been lots of startups since the pandemic and there are lots of different programs that you can go on to. How the the programmer Plas sect, where you have several where it was really interesting and it was great to hear from her about all of the different things you'd think about when he's asking Your Business and how you can get help with different things along the way. Yeah, yeah, definitely, and I think it was it was great because some up there was so, you know, quite like honest and straightforward about how how undiverse the startup world is. Yeah, we know it's predominantly white men in their forces that start a businesses. That's the kind of and get funding as well. Funding, the funding goes to men. There was a report that came out recently about how little VC funding goes to women at all. And I can't remember the exact number, but women of color was was just a terrifyingly tiny am out, like less than less than one percent. I think considerably less than one percent of VC funding goes to women of color. And also the questions that women are asked different in sort of funding rounds and pictures much ask much more challenging questions and really picked out a lot more than men are in those situations. Yeah, there's an assumption somehow that if a white man comes to the table with a business idea, that there's just an automatic assumption that he will succeed, whereas there's a negative assumption about a woman at all, and even more so about a woman of color, even know research shows that actually those businesses are more likely to succeed. Yeah, and yet. But I thought it was really interesting hearing some at the talk about how we can change that and how we can encourage more different people to start businesses and the support that we need to give two more underrepresented people to get because we would change that. We need to see change that. yeahfferent people running businesses, because that cuts through all the way through it as well. If you have different people at the top, then they're going to hire all different people, they're going to do business with more different people than and bring different ideas and different perspectives into the business landscape as a whole and shake things up. So what we need. Definitely it's about there's another great example, because one of the things that I've been really struck by over this year of recording this podcast is how honest people have been willing to be talking about their challenges. I thought was great because we talked to and we talked to Simon upstone from the University of Sussex and we talked to Claire Hopkins from ideal and both of them were incredibly honest about the challenges that they faced with flexible working and with recruiting diverse people and all of those sorts of issues that it's so easy for leaders to try and just kind of make themselves look really good and so like, Oh, yeah, you know, we're amazing, we're perfect everything, but actually you don't get anywhere, you don't make any real changes if you're not willing to accept that there's, you know, some know, excinitely fixing. Yeah, and it's only by people accepting that there are things that they need to do and actions they need to take change that that you will see change. Yeah, yeah, it was so, you know, inspirational about listening to these people in you they they are the leaders that I find really inspiring. I'm really impressive at the people who are, you know, really openly embracing the work that needs to be done and the things that they need. They know they need to look at and focus on, and it was just yeah, it was really great to hear them talking about that and the ways that they're working on that. Yeah, and I love to from Claire Because I've also had a career in tech and, you know international tech where you travel as well. It was great to hear from her and just hear you talking about kind of things that almost forgotten about those trips where you go to conferences and meetings and actually tech in so many ways it's so behind the times and the things that are just acceptable happen on those in those sorts of situations. It was really interesting to...

...talk to her about that and kind of remind myself of those things. You's go on. You know, those conferences that I used to go to really quite shocking to think about them now, but that's what those industries are like. Hopefully you're not so much like that now, but who knows? I didn't mention it when we were recording the podcast. I was thinking about it afterwards that what have the conferences that I went to where I kind of don't remember why now, but somebody was passing a vibrator around in the the drinks in the evening one night and I was just like White, why you even happening? But it's this is just like sort of for things that just go on at these conferences and and you should have expected to just we you're expected to laugh and pretend like you're totally comfortable with all this. Well, it's that thing if you either kind of have to laugh and go along with it or not so much, or if you do say something, then your labeledders, stroppy, no fun, difficult, all those things. That's what it's. Those are really the options that you have available to you. Yeah, Pudding Games. Well, great time we do before we leave on and for the last time this year, let's go to you, Mo for the watch. Fresh Hell is this report? Yes, definitely so. For this month's what fresh hell is this report? I have three great stories for you. The first one is SNCF, the French rail company, and how they've treated a disabled passenger. That are disabled traveler and his friend are still so stranded in France after a nightmare journey both ways. We're staff at French rail company SNCF allegedly refuse them ramp assistance on multiple occasions. Wheel Shaw Use a Jacob Berks and traveled from London to Saint Pancras station to Parry guards donor before transferring to Paris Monpan as station. However, when the train to ran arrived on at the station, he says guards claim there was no time deploy the ramp in order to allow him time to board train, that he was forced to wait for the next train, which was the last of the day. And then staff advise the pair to come back thirty minutes before departure time and that they need to book a ramp forty eight hours in advance for their return journey. And and sencs website talks about digital inclusion, but for wheelchair users their inclusion strategy is that you have to plan forty eight hours in advance when they might have a ramp ready for you to use. And despite a twitter storm, SNCF have not responded yet. So we wait to see what happens on that story. And for the second story in this months report is the nationality and boarders bill. The proposed new nationality and boarders bill, led by pretty fatal, a child of immigrants to the UK, quietly give powers. Gives powers to remove British citizenship without notice. Clause Nine, notice of decision to deprive a person of citizenship of the bill, which was updated earlier this month, exempts the government from having to give notice if it's not reasonably practical to do so or the interest of national security, diplomatic relations or otherwise in the public interest. Francis Webber, the Vice Chair of the Institute of Race Relations, said this amendment sends the message that certain citizens, despite being born and brought up in the UK and having no other home, remain migrants in this country. Their citizenship and therefore all their rights, are precarious and contingent. It builds on previous measures to strip British born dual nationals, but mostly from ethnic minorities, of citizenship and do it while they're abroad, measures which are mainly used against British Muslims. It unapologetically flouts international human rights obligations and basic...

...norms of fairness. The Home Office said British citizenship is a privilege, not a right. If this goes ahead, too and five people from an ethnic minority background in England and Wales, which is around six million people, could become eligible to be deprived of their citizenship. A petition has been raised to gain signatures to protest this a remove clause nine. We wait to see if it reaches the right number of signatures for parliament debate. And finally, the UK gender pay gap. A report has found that the UK gender pay gap is unaffected by government policy. Over the last twenty five years, women are less likely to be in paid work, work eight fewer hours and paid nineteen percent less an hour on average than men if you account for education attament. There has been very little progress in reducing the gender earnings pay gap since one thousand nine hundred and ninety five. Alison Andrew, the CO author of the report and Senior Research Economist at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, said, the highest female earners take home just sixty seven pence for every one pound that the best paid men do, while fewer than one quarter of men and the same or less than the median women. The additional combined effect on the gender earnings gap of other changes in the economy, society and government policies, such as improvements in parental leave and funding for childcare, has been close to zero. Jemima Olachowski, Chief Executive of the force of society, said, this report shows what many women already know, that modern workplaces simply aren't fit for modern life. Quite and that's it for this month's what fresh hell is this report? X Bay, I have Agen. Yes, how long does it take to get a bloody ramp out? Well, I mean so so week. So, just to be clear, we know the person and Sarah who's raised the story. It's her partner and his friend WHO and they're still waiting for to come back from France and they've been told that you have to give forty eight hours notice. They gave forty five hours notice and that wasn't good enough. And while all this has been going on, they're having to pay to stay in a hotel for extra night and that's been difficult to because getting a hotel with wheelchair accessibility is also really difficult. And you think, goodness me, surely they must have ramps at the station that somebody I'm going now. I don't the summers forty eight hours thing. I how could it possibly take fourty hours to get the ramp ready like what it's must be in a cupboard or something. Just get it out. At what's happened? I don't stuff. If somebody needs to travel in emergencies, they're basically saying they can't, they can't support that. Yeah, just don't understand at all. And I despite the twitter storm, they haven't responded now. So we will wait to see what happens because if there was a story in the independent about it today, and I saw her tweet that, hopefully they should be traveling home tomorrow. So we'll have to keep an eye on that. But are you know, if they don't respond at all to this, that will be terrible after all of these people tweeting about it, if they just choose to ignore that, that will say a lot, I think. Yeah, yeah, and and anybody listening who's hoping to eat to learn from these podcasts. That is basically the worst thing that you can do is just to ignore it. And and and what. I hope it will go away. I don't know. It's just, yeah, it looks it looks terrible and so many ways, isn't it? It seems like it's from well, from their impression of it, from what Sarah's been saying, it seems like it's you know, some of the people at the station were prepared to try to help and then the people at the top saying no, no, it's you know that the policy is coming from one high and it's just such a bizarre way of doing business to to just not like accommodations for people. That can't be that difficult.

It's like it just can't be. That just a ramp they must have them possibly taking forty a hours to get a rub breddy. It's just not a thing. It's just yeah, it's just madness, but yeah, it's just and then the the gender Paygat I mean, first of all I just want to comment on the fact that it's been more than twenty five years since one thousand nine hundred and ninety five. Just baby, no silence for that please. That's distressing. But yeah, we're nothing's changed. No, I mean we're we surprised by that. I wasn't really think we kind of know nothing's really changed. And for me it's that quote from the chief exact of the force society where she says that modern workplaces aren't fit for modern life. And I think that's the crucks of this that things, things haven't changed. Like we're still living with the work structures from so long ago, and that's the problem. Well, you know, the world of work is designed for the Industrial Revolution early part of the twenty century. You know, we haven't evolved to pass that, but modern life has changed massively and the demands on our lives are so much bigger and more complex. But work is still this, you know, are in narrow books that were expected. Yeah, and it's one of those I think it was one of your conversation started videos actually, was that when people talk about child care and all of those things that were there's a lot talk about during the pandemic, homeschool, and we have thing it's always mothers that are talked about and it's all focused around that and we don't have a society that has adapted to the different needs. So a friend of mine with applying for a job recently, or was headhunted for a job actually, and she said to them, well, I've got children and so I'm currently working three days a week. I could do four days a week for this role, and they said no, it's like and they've stopped. been struggling. They've been trying to recruit for that role for quite a long time and they struggle to recruit and you think, well, maybe you need to rethink. How are you approaching this, because you've got someone there that saying, Yep, happy to do for days week and you're saying no, and it's an example of how things just need to change. We need to be able to reimagine the world of work. I think about it different you know, genuinely that. That's why we, you know, we called the podcast that we that's our tagline. We need to be able to think about work differently, because she just this idea of all this is the way it's always been, this is the way we do things, because it's the way we do things. Isn't fit for purpose and it's not going to enable businesses to evolve and grow and survive in there in the future with the way that the world is changing, and it'll be the ones that do adapt to change are the ones that survived and attract all the best candidates and all of those things. So, yeah, it's I guess I optimistically hope the pandemic would change all of these things, and actually it has for some organizations, but for a lot they've gone straight back to how things were and haven't really thought how they're recreasing and say things like, you know, oh, but we don't get people applying for our jobs. You know, the same kind of people find. Well, that's because you're approaching it in a certain way and you need to make changes. Like to make change happen, you have to make changes. And it interesting you should say about all the same people applying for jobs, because you can join us in January. Yeah, an event with almost like I used to work in marketing, and we have an expert panel talking about a featuring a couple of previous podcast guests. Actually, yes, I read everybody who is one of our amazing for call get this guests will be on the panel. And, yeah, grab your ticket. It's only a tenner. It's all online. You don't even have to get dressed and go out in the cold. You can sit in your pajamas, enjoyed this on zoom and and find out about why people are all the same here...

...applying for your jobs and how you can get a more diverse workforce and why you should want to. Yes, and and then, finally, we should just talk about the fact that if you are not a white person in this country, you might get your ciszenship taken off you. Yeah, where to start with that story? It's it's a really upsetting story. It's one that has been rumbling along for a long time. It really has been rumbling along for ages and quietly more and more things are going into it and it's it's now got, you know, being pushed through to parliament. There is a petition. It hasn't got many signatures, I think. I don't think people really feel like it's something they need to worry about themselves, to be honest. So there isn't a lot of interest being gained by the petition, you know, and it's just this, the fact that it can be your citizenship can be removed without you having anything, any saying it, anything can do about it. And you know, this story came to really to the for with Shemi, mcbagum, who had her citizenship taken away. And you know, she was born in the UK and lived her life in UK before she left. And you know, I've said I say this a lot of people. She's British as me. So what they're really saying is is that, you know, someone from my background could suddenly be told your citizenships been taken away. And you know, I've never lived in India. I was born here, I've lived my whole life. They have no, you know, no life there, anything and with and they're just saying that that can be taken away. You know, you think after everything that happened with wind rush that there would be a different approach to any of these kinds of discussions, but there really isn't, and it's just it's difficult to know what to say about to what's do about it as well. And you know there are some MP's were really campaigning for changes and to have amendments put into this bill, but sadly, with the government with such a big majority, it will go through. That's the reality of this. Yeah, and I think a lot of people do really and so what it means either, because you know you are saying that the idea is, you know, would you be sent back to India? But you you wouldn't necessarily be granted Indian citizenship because you're you're not Indian. So if they took your British citizenship away from you, you know, you say love stateless yeah, and as I don't think people really understand the applications of that. There's this idea of going back where you came from, but it's like, but actually they a lot of these people didn't come from anywhere else. They they come from. And it's the same with wind rush where people were sent back to countries that they've never lived in or left as a toddler and, you know, don't know anybody there and have no life there. So it's a very dangerous and damaging rhetoric and, like I say, it's difficult to know what to do about it. Yet. We can sign petitions, but I don't that's not really going to change anything because they're the government has such a big majority that it would just go through. It's really difficult to know what to do about it. Yeah, if you do want to try and sign the petition, both my own I have shared it on social media, so if you go to either of our twitter accounts you'll be able to find it. So, you know, please do sign it because I think it's so important. An Yew, like you say, I don't know what else to do, but it's I think part of the problem is that the media has a really kind of a weapon, eyes the Shemima Bega and story. Yeah, and demonize her secession extent and made her the post child for this and so well, you know, we want to get rid of these types of people, but what we forget about that story is she was fifteen. Yeah, you know, she was a child and some horrendous things have happened to her and she's buried all these babies, which I just can't even imagine. Yeah, how horrifics that that's been at such a young age to go through that. She was groomed and she was manipulated as a child and then, you know, taken away from her home and her family. And yes, she went willingly, but a lot of children are groomed into doing things willingly that we recognize its abuse and I'm not sure what we think it's souls to strip her of her citizenship and just abandon...

...her. You know, whatever bad things that she's done, whatever you know troubled thoughts, you know, have taken root in heart. They happened here. We have a responsibility to her, to you know, to help rehabilitate her, to help deal with with what she's done and what's been done to you her, and I don't I don't know what problem it solves to just abandon her and then, even worse, so then use that to potentially stripped, just start stripping citstenship from lots of other people is just monstrous. Yeah, it's play. It's playing to a certain rhetoric. Plain was certain certain audience. It's yeah, it's it's hideous, really is. It's really difficult to know what else to say about it other than put pressure in your MP White Ump, but one that will listen. Yeah, and it's setting a precedent for, you know, them being able to then just take cittern ship away from anyone who disagrees with them or anyone who says anything they don't like. It's that it sets very, very unsettling precedent. So if you think this is only about dealing with hard in criminals, then you are kidding yourself. So, yes, please do sign the potition, please do write to your MP and if you think of anything else that can be done, let us know. But yeah, that's really worrying situation. But back to the positive things about the yeah, my what's the one thing that you think you're going to take away from two thousand and twenty one pandemic gear too, and so competitions, because somebody has it's true. Really could be you, really could be you. Yeah, it was us. So we didn't think it would be. That's been so crazy and I think that idea that you think it's never going to be you and I think for us, as women particularly, we're really kind of programmed to think called, don't put your hands up, don't put your head above the parapet day and yeah, and and to think it wouldn't be asked. You know how we're never going to win it. And then it was yeah, so, yeah, so you should. You should put your hands up and you should stick your head up there and you should tea your in Horn, because some side it pays off. Yeah, and then people give you lads of money and invite you to do weird things like go and single Chris wisongs with Santa. Actually, yeah, so what about you? What if the my biggest kind of takeaways from this year. I think is really interesting because I think this time last year we were talking about how the pandemic was going to change things and what the impacts on the world of work would be, and I think it's interesting that twelve months later, I think we still kind of a don't really know that and I think that are a lot of organizations that have been thinking about things differently and have really embraced flexible working and remote working in ways that they never ever would before. But I also think it's interesting how so many people are rushing to try and go back to normal, yeah, and kind of get back into the swing of things, how things used to be. And you know, just suddenly online events have disappeared, which I'm really sad about because I loved them. It was great having all of these things on. Like, you know, I've got two small kids. It's really difficult for me to get out two events in the evening really often. So being able to get to things online and I it was great because I can put the kids to bed and then come and join all these really awesome events all over the place and not have to go anywhere. It was great and I know for a lot of people, you know, people with disabilities and people who have health conditions and you know all sorts of people, it was it made the world sid really so much more accessible and brought the world so much closer. And then this sudden rush sure go back to, quote, unquite normal. It's taking all of that away again, and so I sort of it's not the most positive take away. then. Sort of it's a worry really, if all we are we just sliding back and see how things used to be. Is the pandemic going to change anything? Yeah, that's the thing, because we're...

...so hopeful of seeing that change, the things being different. But actually it would also be easy because, if I think, because of the people who are in charge, is actually going to sort of drive things back to how they were, and that's what we need to be careful of. And I think it's interesting that there's been so many people that the great resignation, so many people have left their jobs and a starting their own businesses and doing their own things and building their own networks and those kind of things. That that's the positive bit of it that hopefully will drive change and that. But there will be resistant. There's always resistance to change. Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's never, never straightforward and people fear change. We took about a lot, but it there is a lot of you know, a lot of people have said they won't go back to how it was and they want to do things differently. There are so many people starting new businesses now. So I think that will hopefully be a kind of leading by example to the situation, because you're one of the one of the most amazing podcast episodes that we had this year was a readeep reality. Yeah, about representation and the importance of that. And you know, actually that's one of the great things that I think we have seen over the last year is so many great women and people of Color and people from all sorts of different under representative groups standing up and leading new businesses and new initiatives, new events and and that really demonstrates ways of doing things differently. And so, yeah, and I read that. Yeah, and I read you don't know if you saw, she did a tweet recently about how she makes sure that every event you organize. Yeah, I just had enough women of color. And you know, she's a great example of somebody who's changing things by doing if you built built this community, she's organizing event, she's making sure that there's representation. She also calls out other events where they don't have a diverse range of speakers and if she's are to speak an event, she asked who the other speakers are. This is a great example. That's another another great podcast episode to listen to. Yeah, a reage's brilliant and she's always such an amazing speaker and she's such an inspirational person. And she is and she's speaking on January event. Yes, they come to that because you're going to say her again, but yeah, I think and and also she's a set's a great example of how to call people out, but in a rip very polite and very professional and very reasonable way, but during attention. And maybe that's something that we need to do as we me forward with all these businesses who are desperately trying to drag us back into how things used to be, is just politely call them out and say things have changed the world as meeting. Yet we need to be forwards, not back. Yeah, thanks, actually, no, we're not. Well, we know, we day. We've never had it off. We don't know. This is where we've always bet. Yes and my finally, what are you hoping for for two thousand and twenty two? What are you looking forward to? What are you wanting to see? What's exciting about the next year? Well, we've got a really exciting year plan because we've got so many things already lined up. You know already, if I look at my calendar for sort of January, February, is exciting that we've got lots of things happening and lots more to do as well. Hope, our hopes are that we find time to do more writing, because that's something we really both want to do. So I really want us to make sure we do that so that and that will be a really positive thing to do next year as well. That's definitely one of my hopes. What else? And hopes are that we see more and more organizations taking on board the need for change, and we are seeing happening. Yes, there's lots of going back to how things where and resistance are change, but there's also a lot of great examples of people really taking things on board and changing things. So I want to see more of that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we have got a really exciting two thousand and twenty two coming up. I'm I am really looking forward to it. Yeah, and you know, we've got we're going to have a new training platform launching. So, I hate...

...to say it, watch this space because that ill becoming that have to set. But yeah, you'll be able to subscribe to our training platform and get access to all of our elearning courses in one place, which will be great, and that's thanks to our simply business grant. We're no able to get that for running. So that will be launching early twenty trity. We've got exciting offense coming up starting with the one in January. So do do you check out all of our social media feeds and you'll see how you can put onto that. And we're working with some amazing clients. We're working with community works and the girls network in January. He was some of our favorite organizations. So that's something to really look forward to. And Yeah, and I'm right, I think my big hope, what I really would like for the next year. I think we've lived through a period of time where people have been so incredibly polarized about everything, and it started with Briggs a and then you did with this government. Has Been quite a difficult, divasive the contentious issue, and then the pandemic and masks and vaccines and you know, there's been so much that people have got really polarized about and I think that has sort of blood and to discourse about everything. And this seems to be the way that people approach everything now, is to be very, very polarised about it, and I would really hope that we're going to. I hope that we're going to start to come out of the pandemic, we're going to start to move out of them more kind of dramatic feeling around our lives and that will hopefully create some space for people to be able to have conversations a little bit more and and discuss issues rather than taking polarized sides about everything and feeling the need to argue and shout. And then maybe we can actually have more discussion and listen more to one another. That's lovely. Hopefully year. Yeah, lovely thought to end on. Say, you know, big get to yourselves and each other. And just one more thing I wanted to say. We finished this episode, which is thanks to people have sponsored our podcast over the last year too. Yes, yes, we've had some really lovely podcast sponsors and and but, yeah, we wouldn't be able to do this without them. It just did to make a PODCAS spots in two thousand and twenty two. Yes, and we've got some new sponsors into interest went to already. So yeah, yeah, and thank you also to everybody who's supported us and cheerleading us on social media and and in events and everything else over the last year, because we've we're really lucky, I think, to have a really great community around. Yeah, we do, and that that feels very exciting and very motivating. So if you've ever sent us a nice tweet or turns up to our event and said something nice to us. So please know that we really appreciate it and it really does boost UF. Yes, definitely does. Yeah, thank you very much for listening to the reimagination at work podcast over the last year. If you haven't been listening to all year, go back and check out all those amazing episodes of those incredible people, because they are all there on the podcast platform of your choice, ready to inspire you on your journey to a more inconclusive way of living. And don't us in two thousand and twenty two for some really exciting new guests and new discussions and your conversations and if there's ever anything that you would like to hear about on the podcast, anything you think that we should be discussing, or any questions you want to ask them, please do you get in touch. You can contact us by emailing hello at watch this space dot UK. Our website is watch this base dot UK and on social media we are at watch this spce. So we will see you in two thousand and twenty two. Have a wonderful Christmas or winter break or whatever festivities you're just some time of work, have a rest enjoy yourself. We'll see you next year, but by...

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