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Episode 6 : Rachel & Mo chat about representation of female characters in film

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Rach and Mo meet up to chat about good and bad examples of how women are represented in film and the lessons we consciously and subconsciously take from those characters. 

Action: Everyone at Rachel Pison here, I'm herewith Co, founder of watch hi space mocangelout. We recording a video for this podcast.I guess it's a video carn Um, and this is the reimagination at work.PODCAST Orviogast, where we talk about concepts and barriers to breaking down traditionalwork habits, things that just don't work for us anymore and we talk aboutthe new normal and what that should look like this is maybe or sixt Eso.Now I din it yet yeah ad x episode. Now we started off with a three part:Atrilogy, the nerds of US might say, um about reimagination at work and the newnormal throughout the pandemic that we've all been living through andexperiencing. And then we have some episodes namedwhat men can't leave, which is very procontroversial. We a O, a filmreference there yeah we like of ELM SCA. If you get to know, I you all realizethat and then a really great interview lastepisode, Wis Bron Valentine from Amazon, which is amazing. So this week we aretalking about something very close t mine, an Mo's heart and the world ofentertainment and film, and particularly as of Reimagination, theroles of women in those films and rows of women in film in work places a e. Weg a little bit creative with what work play. Yea T T V in there as Wellas.Well so yeah talking about those petrayals of women and what's goodabout them, whatas bad about them and uh yeah. Basically, that's what we'regoing to talk about yeah, so Um Mo, and I have both chosen some femalecharacters m from TV and film to talk about how they're portrayed and Um yeahwhat we can learn from those o. what's bad about those. What lessens we othesociety Canta from them? So No, I will let you kick us off who's, your firstcharacter yeahokay. So we we decide to to try and pick a good example and wha,we think, is a good example and a colly bad ones. I'm going to start with thebad one actually, which doesn't seem like it from the start, so I' Gon totalk about the intern. It a hathaway, if you seen it I haven't seen ago. Soan Hatheway is an ENTREPRENEU. Who has this idea for a business called aboutthe fit for women to have um clothes to fit them that they can by online, andso the way it works is they? I think they measure themselves and then thet'storled on the website, and it means anything they buy will fit them. So itIke a great concept. Really Goo idea started out of er kitchen, and then itgrows to be this business and she's got like a huge big warehouse. I Lik in NewYork andpluing all these people and she's a kind of unconvincional CEO. Shecyrcles round the office and he but the whole thing seems really cool and it'sreally great and then the intern bit. If it is, they decide to Heran in termand actually the intern they end up hiring is Robert Nero who's, retied illike old dirt yeah. It's like a whole big, great thing. Where they're doingall these things, that sort of challenging perception yet NI, there'ssome great ideas in there and it's a really good m way of thinking aboutthat. There's like concepts around like ages, ags, which is actually a hugething, that we don't talk about enough ages them in the workagesm andsomething that we do talk a lot about. Watch Thi Space, unconscious bias yeah.So immediately when he said Inter and I was like you, young Anoo guy is goingto come in and Ruin B. Robert Denero is Nov a young guy anymore. Exactly andactually he decides to be an intern...

...because he used to work in thatbuilding when it was. I think it was a phone directory when you had like phonedirector in and he decides he wants to work there ecause it's a building, heUSD to work in wheno everything's online and he gets selected to be theintern and he faces all kinds of Um unconscious bias. When people are like,oh you'rl, the intern, yeah and then it all works out really well. They buildfrom Sta of having a difficult time, build a difficult relationship. I'mafraid I I'm going to talk about tha spoiler, because the disappointingthing and the reason why n I picked this one is what happens is the way therelationship worked between CEO and has Ha Wase character on her husband isthat he stays at home looks afffer their daughter Whil. She runs thissuccessful business and that's all great, I know traand honestly when Iwatched it. I was like this is a brilliant like this. What Great Concertoamolywood movie until you get to the bit where he has an affair with anothermom and you' like? Why did they have to bring that and a alsing a fact that hehas an affairt not just with anyone but another mum, yeah who's successfullyfulfilling the roll of woman should fee Fili. He cheats on her his big CEO,successful wife who, as not being the traditional mother, Fig Yeh withsomeone ouns being a mom, so I feel like it was a great idea, I'd love toknow like the original idea, whether that could change for anybody in thestudio and like what happened along the way e a person came up with that idea.Wh was that supposed to be the end of it and instory or a Av to know, but yes,that's more example of something that could have been great, but I feel likeit's ruined wil that way of the story: Yeah, totally yeah, it's funny how Um it's funny, how like h n when thathappens in films, you often I often kind of comes at one of the latermoments in the film like the Air Bird of the film, it's usually the bit thos phones going off she's animportant business. Um is often at the point at which Um everything seems tobe going okay and then something bad happens, and then basically Um. That has that's often the hardest partof the script to write. 'cause you're, like you, have to have some moreconflict like a final kind of thing towards the end of the year that thecharacter the main patagonist, has to have learnt throughout the movie. How thow to overcome his fine yerd and go on in that journey? And often it's the bitthat people get wrong or 'cause it's the hardest bit to do h. It is you justknow, like I imagine it's the easiest thing in the world to just go: okay,like here's, a troke that', throw it in there yeah and it's like. What's thewhat's the story there? What's the moral of the story that if you want tobe a successful female Entrepreneu, you know you need to look off Tor your manas well make sure he doesn't go off an theon affair. You know they're likecome on. You ended up better than that. Is that message o? If you're a woman,you cannot have it or male patagonists and films similar to that more oftenthan not end up at the end of the film. If it's, you know your traditional kindof Hollywood, narrative m they've, put it all of yeah partner, they've got thejob, they've got the they've, conquered the you know, monsters and all of thatstuff, whereas if you're a woman in that kind of roll, you can't have itall. You have to have lost some year Benifican because- and it's kind oflike it's almost wave like that kind oftraditional Hollywood, stor movie story telling or punishing the femalecharacters for wanting more than what they think yeah e should have so shestepped out of her place yeah. So now, there's got to be sacrificelyinsequence to that ETE have a really amazing highflying job and B Faren andchildlay ans, husbandless or partnerless, or you can be a mom yeah and a princess, and that's it so speaking of princesses, yes, AhaSecar Eaga Um,...

...my first negative one is one. I lookedup too massively as a child was Obsesseith as a child. Like many womenof my kon of generation were now it's not princess layanoit's, not PrincessLayer. I've deliberately left her out um she's on her pedestal, andmy heart.No! It's the little man aid, Ari yea, litle Mamaid, grew up with all allmanner of Disney stories and it's great to see so much diversity in all kindsof ways and animated shows, even in Disneysh in Disneyfilms now the kidsaren't growing up with the kind of Um characters, female characters that wewere growing up with in terms of animation, Yeah Disney in particular.So you know Prince IIS being safe by the Prince. She literally the lowmoment. She literally gives up her voice for a man to pursue a man yeah. Notonly that is. She gives up her voice to her primary Um opponent, which isanother women setting women again agaium, you know, Arsula is like bigand they they've made ar you know big. So there's a complete lack of bodypositivity in that film- and I know people will be sad, but it's onlyDisney is any made up, but like children, take this of children likemyself y. take that on and Um it's again, it's like the woman givingsomething up, but it's lit. I mean it's so on the nose now yeah, I e giving upher voice to pursue a man M and it's yeah so that that's mie thatyear and those things do start ount children not born with those biases andths ase thinking they learn them. They learn along the way what girls aresupposed to do and what boys are supposed to do. Yeah, and I think it'svery sad lots of the things that reforced in girls and boys the wholething. You know where Um there's some videos Fr an advertising company thinkabout girls and when they run and like what they think bouts a yon ars, anwanning like a gir and yeah on like a girl and things like that. Those thingswill storp quite young in children's perceptions, yeah O it's really theyoungest girls in that art, and I think it's always maybe atink ears yeah. Theyounger girls are like they get told to run like a girl yeah and they go yes,you know and they zoomolog and they're powerful and there fast and they don'tcare what they let like. Then they ask team girls to do the same and all theyask boys. I think they has always to run like a girl and they're like yeaherr and stuff, so yeah that stuff is tauht. I yeah no baby knows about no,like anything l alone. You know gender stereotimes, so yeah I just of eversince I don't know like growing up. I think that little mermaids arial giving up hervoice for a man and and that' so often what happens an abusive toxicrelationyea well like women, either give their voice or have ittaken from them. Um An you know. They become silent, yeah m yeah, basically, yello yeah. I stilllove the movie Ynow Joya E, I think. Maybe not maybe I will go back andwatch it an billa, but I haven't seen it for quite a long time. I feel likeI'll, probably watch it again. Now e talked about it, yeah yeah, and thenyou know I mean we'll touch on it very quickly, because this is about all thefemale partrayal ove characters, but you know Disney has historically, Imean for so many reasons, a massive...

...problem with ethnic diversnea Umthey've only just had their first um princess of color yeah, po C yeah, WS people, Ave gyeah, I meanthey've eanly just had that like within the last decade, less than the deathyeah. So they you know, there's a whole problem that we could do a whole yeahor co O at Dot Stik Way, intoe next C Oy, andif you planned it and yes, my next ones, not filmuth TV and it's the mindyproject hailing so so. For me, quite in my whole life there's. Never anyone whoI feel is like me on T V and Inplvery, very, very rare, h, Everyveran so M.for example, I've watched a neat fom me the other day 'cause. It was on t V andthat's something I remember when I watched it going: Oh, my God, yeah andreading the book ith, the ASE, but very rare for me and with mindecaling. Ifeel like that's a really positive image there. So sheao career she's, notlike skinny and talks about that and talks to Het's like a body, positivekind of show, she's quiet. You know what someo she's quite relatable. Youknow he makes mistakes along the way and goes up with the wrong guys- andyou know like the whole thing about that show I think, is very relatable,even it's in America, but Y el, like that's a really positive kind of imagethat show and actually when she talks as well, I'm indicate- and I reall likethings she says: Yeah and she's kind of like she's, quite a positive role,moder, what a good person are, the yeah au I'm always drawn to that show. Ifyou I've, watched quite a lot anly since being on like Sarla, yeah,hokdown and stuff Um, it's on it's on there's a few episodes like one o kindof marathon every year and I've been watching loads of it, kin't e. You canstay and watch all of her and you're totally right: She's, she's, Um, she's,she's kind of like she's, not a dislikable character, but she's, very avery real representation o like a woman Yank which isn't always ohthe hero. You know the likeaball not like Zoi Desh and Alen she's different'cause. She Sh we've been DOCA. She says the wrong thing yeah, you know andshe go hes hat day yeah when she is rude to people, Anto people and she's,but like that's, that's what real a R and she betrays it really well she's areally great acdress. I actually love a lot of her character that she's done umthe character she did in the American office. Yeh Oly Hel There's also got another showon Netflax, which a carnboad, it's call, which IV binge watche during lock down.Heh Yeah Yeah, she' she's, really great, and you know she's a doctor, yeah yeah,H, yeah, I guess she's, I she like aprenator Ornato Obstatricia. I don't know doctor anything, I'm like Doctor Pa Yeah. I yeah really love that show andshe's a great m yhonest portrayal like woman. Yes, when you see having into belike a follow her an instanground thing, she's, just really like I'd love tomeet her one of those people, I think she al Aran by Lonifeless Ye e Ise lovsto have a drink. With you oo, I like how she talks about Um there's a coupleof episodes. I saw where she um meets an Indian guy and she wants to dat here.Yeah, but he's like you know like I'm, I'm really in touch with my herety yeahand being Indian. I have other Indian friends like Um. You know I'm in touchwith L, people from you know my culture and background and family and all ofthat kind of stuff and she's, like I just like she just identi its almostlike she identifies like not as Ityeah t and it's a really interesting thing.So for me, as Chird of immigrants, they've been through like waves, sowhen you were really young, you just want to fit in yeah. Actually. For me,I denied a law of that Indian...

...background and wouldn't talk about itbecause you want to be like everyone else, somting your name trying for end,try and be like everyone else. 'cause kids don't want to generally bedifferent yeah, that's what you're try and do, and actually it's later on thatyou for me anyway. You start to think about how you got this. All of thebackground ano go Arayo whatwyhave I been hiding my yeah, you kind of goesentially, I'm way more interesting than that. There's all Tese, like youknow, Indian stories and things N, my banround, but when yeah, definitelywhen a Youngger, I think for a lot of people, you try and deny that. But theneveryone has different experiences. So I've got Indian friends that alwaysvery in touched with I ear the Indian life and indid things th. I love thatEisoyah Hey's, so relatable to me e meet somebody and go Al Right. Okay,well and yeah, I've lived a really different life to you, hming. I canimagine people watching that episode and being like, maybe like what maybewhite people watching it and being not sure how to react to it, because I meanshe's she's, like you know that tern that people used to describe with women,like Oh ye, say basic she's, almost ateear, but um that epsode was yeah, reallyreally interesting. Yeah. I think I think they've been repeating theseepisodes O to I've seen her about three times next time. I yeah. This isamazing, like there there's a lot of food for thought, yeah at oneparticular but yeah yeah that' is a great series she's a great example yeahUm. So we got a seguary into we HAVTI. Let me think no, neither of them adoctor. So I'vegot Um too, because I'm areed and my clearly I'm big film nerd love filmscan't just pick one, and one of them is the main one. So that's the characterof Danny played by Florence Cue in midsummer, but PABAMA, which II have it Omeda Oni e etterlyabset. I don't Min as boil as is tat Indyeah, so we probably should havesaid at the beginning. This is spoilet. Territ yeah haven't seen MINSAMA UM onhell, not first of all, I'm going to watch it Um and yes, spoilers. We, I amgoing to spoil it Um, so I'll just give you a littlemoment to pause and go and watch mid somehere but Yeh. So it's the character of Dannyfrom midsummer who's played by my gircrash Florence, Pierre and she's,absolutely Brilliat, brilliant actress. I really like as a person as well, notthat we know each other again flor again. If you're listening here, Iyoure lessoning pleac Yo um. Let's get on with that. She I think it's more the film, ratherthan her specific character in terms of a real win for, like the Potrayal ofwomen, like we were talking about women or often even when they're the winners in films, they've lostsomething. Yet to that point, and that's kind of true of midsummer,so midsummer starts off with Danny dodpas character, um having ha wholefamily commits suicide, and so she's suffering this incredible amount ofgrief, which she bortrays incredibly powerfully, really didn't be. Thestarbing and people have been calling a horror film, it's probably easier to describe it asthat that it's like I'm lucky. I've never experienced griefso profound that antem feels like horror, but yet it's kind of what it'slike this film Um and basically the guys around her boyfriend's thinking ofbreaking up with her for a long time. Obviously this happened and he half or half asked like supports her Um,but really he doesn't want to be with her and his friends, their cod kind offriends now and they will go offto. This festival, I think in Sweden,called Mitsamer M with this little...

...community of the Haga. It's like aHarga tribe or Yait the people, some crazy shit and shoes like Um, really,you know crazy stuff she's going through all of this grief and then oneby one, these men that have kind of like not spanned. Her but treated herwith such disregard M and disrespect M and like just deep unkindness Um, getknocked off likeand. It's really satisfying to watch and the at the end,she's crowned like this midsummer kind of queen she's kind of integrated withthis group of people that have welcomed Herien and got rid of these Horrible IIlie N and she has this incredible victory inthe last shop of the film, I think, is her just kind of smiling a you know a lot of stuff going on aroundher. I saidm I'm going to watch it evenhay by nowday. I watched, and I waslike and no murder is wrong and I ner Ike. I don't want all men, dads and allF, that you know stuff that people think about feminists, but I left thecinema. Just like I W Lik. I thought I was going to go in and watch likesomething that would like really scare me ea up at night, but I stil fuckingan BA. I feel like yeah like taking on the Waler. I feel amazing, so that's mythat kind of Maine or not ateforn ye main positive wor Butyou' got anotherone and I've got another one, and is it princes e and OPPRINC A ut? It's aclose secondto princess layer in my hale and it's Ellen Ripley from Alien,Oh yea, who I just think is an amazing. U Hard bodied portrayal of a femalecharacter and she takes on w a really specifically wanted to say that Ireally liked about the potrayal of a woman in this film and the way she'sbetrayed is that she does take on the mantle of a mother yeah but M. it's it's really what I think true RarPrimeol. Motherhood is the way she kind of takes that o like she wore go to theends of the Earth or Spaair, and she will take on thee, torrendouus monsters.You know Um. She is a leader S, ois ye very male but read mean- and I justthink, she's incredibly empowering throughout all of all of the films, andI think the Potrayal of motherhood and what mother Houd Mean Yeah. You gentlyrocking your baby to sleep at night. It's not um teaching. You know, youknow all of these kind of comedy films that you have where you know: Othethey're, flustered and frustrated Marv y from school and stuffking and stufflike that yeah. It's not this different deate Petrayal of motherhood, it's likegritty and primal, and it really Sayds, like you know what lents would your sense ofmotherhood go to like? What would you Yar do? And I really like that, yeahbeing I'm, not a mother Onteri, we need a leg Oo es you know busy being amothertot. I imagine like there would be something yes supremely primal aboutbeing a mother th in the contection, your a child and, like you, do anythingfor that trial that isn't about cooking them dinner and Ti Lik. That N, I yeahyou know chicken nuggets yeahand and you knowmaking sure that you know you know they're doing Teir Homeworkyeah, it's adifferent kind of thing, an it! It's making me want to watch, watch thefilms again, it's not a thing to watch. T again, it's been a while, since I'veseen there yeah and again she's not like she doesn't Um Teau the child in the traditional kindof way. You know she has nute who she find yeah who's found on the ship,...

...and you know you could say: Oh, why isit the woman? That's looking after her like whie? But you know, ther arenatural instincts for some women, not all women. Yet not all women are bornto be mothers. I want to be mother Um, but so you could kind of. I guess hecould not kind of argue. Oh, you know like the care of this child fools thewoman, but I think that she takes it yeah. I think she actually takes thaton. Doesn't she and it's like her kind of fierce motherhoode Eah, really wantsto protect yeah Yeahyeah, so we would love to hear from people about positiveand negative portrayals of women and like why Yeah Um, because we lovediscussing that stuff anyway and we AV UF as but it would be really great toshare that so yeah do y? U share that on our social mejior channels were a owatch this space at what TAT e Litra Watch this SPC e Y Social Media TallofSocial Megataes, and he could also go to the website, which confusinglyslightly, is watch this space to U C yeah, and you can check us out therethere's lots of great blogs about diversity and inclusion, and if youwant to find out more about what we do at Watch, Thi Space do get in touchwith us. Yetaus we've got incredible workshops and training and consultancy,and video MSO yeah check us out on all of the channels available on theInternet exactly yeah, and thank you very much for joining a day. Thank Yo asee you next tar.

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